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dgianna
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« on: April 26, 2007, 06:31:19 am »

OK, now for a really dumb topic -- ownership.
Is there ANY sense in owning an older plane for training oneself -- that is, based at same airport as flight school, using local FBO?
I guess it will come down to # of hours training and ownership expenses vs. renting a wet plane from the school. And of course, acceptance by the instructor (read: oh no, I'm not getting in THAT thing with you!)

It gets really attractive when you see some aircraft -- for instance I am upstate NY and local to two schools -- Richmor Aviation (Poughkeepsie, NY) and Arrow Aviation (Danbury, CT). I like the latter and had my first "experience" in a Warrior.
So in Albany, NY there is an Alarus CH-2000 for sale, about 7-years old and with an asking price of $40K. For half that, something that seems similar to a Warrior (called a PA-28, I think) is for sale. Kind of old.

I guess it really comes down to how many hours one expects to be flying, the variable costs of owning an "old" plane, tie-down rates and how many hours to the next MOH (the Alarus seems to be a 2400-hr motor, the Piper a 2000-hr).
All of a sudden, $114--$158 an hour for a wet plane that runs 9gph or so suddenly seems very reasonable -- but then I have NO CLUE what insurance would cost, nor FBO, not even tie-down.
I'm afraid to ask!
And then there is the 2000-hr rebuild --- any clue?
(yes, depends on when/where)
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Dave G
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« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2007, 04:08:45 pm »

Dave this post is kinda old but I will post anyway. I have been away for a while so I am trying to get caught back up.

Owning a plane is like this. If you can work on things yourself then owing is no different than anything else. If you have to RELY on someone else then owning is like everything else. I will not rely on anyone working on my plane the plane that I fly 9,000' in the air. I do all my own work and do an owner assisted annual. I know what is being done on my plane and I know what to expect when something goes wrong. I have owned a 1980 172N with 8,000 hrs one of the best planes I owned. I have also owned a 1975 Piper Six with 5,000 hrs. The 172 looked like crap and flew like a dream. The six looked like a million bucks and flew OK. I own a 68 150G that looks like the 172 old and used barely ran when I brought it home from FL. All I did was put 4 cylinders and a carb on it and it flys great. I have less than $15,000 in the 150. I had $35,000 in the 172, basically did all my training in it and sold it for a profit not spending anything other than a new AT indicator. I had the most into the Six $120,000. And it cost me some when I sold it. I now fly a 1966 Viking $35,000. A new engine will cost me $8,000. or so in the next year and I have been putting newer electronics in it (Because I like to not because I have to) But I will never loose money on this plane. Owning a plane is freedom, what is your freedom worth? not to mention your piece of mind.

Dan
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dgianna
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2007, 08:30:30 am »

Flying nothing but a 172, naturally I always look at Cessna ads.

The 172 is a great trainer, and could possibly fly a family, but seems limited.
By comparison, a 182 seems more capable, but perhaps too much airplane (OK, not as complex or big as the six-seat 205, but you get the point).

The 177 (Cardinal) seems like a good compromise -- range and capacity will allow for reasonable travel, and fuel consumption is not too great to make the weekend solo out of the question.
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Dave G
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2007, 06:23:53 pm »

Why do you say that the 182 is too much plane? Too much to fly or too much to own? You can get older 182's for less and they will fly just as nice if not better. Look also into the older 210 first years. You can get the gear welded down and make  nice fixed gear six pass plane out of them. Be creative when you look. If you look at planes that everyone else is buying then you will pay top dollar. There are so many nice planes out there. Not that he 172 is not nice or the 182, but they bring top dollar. The 172 can do a family of 4 if you are not into comfort too much. If I had to pay the price for a 177 I would get a Viking instead. For the same price of a 177 you can get a 75 or newer most likely a 78-82 Viking that would blow the doors off the 177 in stability, speed, and options. The Viking is one of the bet buys out there and one of the easiest planes to fly.

Dan
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dgianna
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« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2007, 08:05:11 pm »

It's also high performance (300hp), constant speed and has retractable gear. It looks awesome, but um I don't think that I could talk to an insurance broker who would look back at me with a straight face. :-)

I'll keep looking...

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Dave G
dgianna
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« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2007, 08:08:12 pm »

PS: I've been told by someone I trust a great deal that a 177 is a "dog."
I'm not sure why, but I've learned fast that many people in this space have opinions, much like any other space, I reckon.
Now if there is a plane out there that is a "pig" I'd like to see it. If it's a pig and it flies, I guess a whole lot of unlikely things are going to happen that day that are just waiting for "when pigs fly." Smiley
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Dave G
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